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07/30/2003

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ClockworkGrue

For romantic roleplaying, don't forget to check out HeartQuest: Romantic Roleplaying in the World of Shoujo Manga, by Saraphim Guard.

Exploring the site a little bit shows that they are working on a D20 version for their second edition.

In the romantic-comedy vein, there's RTalsorian's Teenagers From Outer Space, which feels kind of like Ranma 1/2 meets Urusei Yatsura! meets Tenchi Muyo! meets some other stuff. Hailing from back in 1987, this game shows that guys have been sitting around in basements describing how their characters are dating each other, for decades.

Anime roleplaying seems to be where romance roleplaying appears as something other than a joke. Probably because so many anime support some sort of love triangle, or otherwise build their core character framework around unresolved sexual tension.

And, of course, back in the day, there was always AD&D's old Book of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, which a good google search should produce for anyone who cares.

ClockworkGrue

And of course, there's always the bizarro-world of the LARP, and its relationship to romantic roleplaying. And furr-- I mean anthropomorphic roleplaying...

But, I don't have any personal experiences there.

PreacherBoy

Hey Jane. I think your article is a little off as you haven't gone far enough with a male character and Bastila. Want to see the dialogue I was able to exchange with her? Just so you know, my character's name is Sekkyo Shonen. It basically is the literal translation of "PreacherBoy" to a language that seems more Star Wars universe appropriate. In this case, Japanese.

Anyways, here's the HOT HOT HOT action. Bold sentences are the chosen or forced responses, the others are the other choices.

--- BEGIN MAJOR SPOILERS ---

Sekkyo:
When we last talked you said you needed time to think. So?

Bastila:
You have been patient with me, haven't you? I suppose you deserve an answer. But you have to understand how difficult this is for me to say.

Sekkyo:
Yes, I think so.

Bastila:
With all of my training, I should be able to control myself better than this. But you're not anything like I expected. You're not like any man I've ever met before. I find myself watching you when I don't mean to. I'm thinking about you when I don't want to. It isn't supposed to be like this!

Sekkyo:
What are you trying to say, exactly?
What is it supposed to be like?

Bastila:
Every time I try to call on all of my teachings to calm myself they fail me. You have such power, such passion! I don't know if it's due to the bond between us, but I'm drawn to you.

Sekkyo:
Are you interested in me or in my ability to use the Force?
Sorry, Bastila. That starship won't fly. I'm not interested.

Bastila:
The Force is a part of you, as is your power. But that's not what attracted me to you. It's more than that. Maybe it's the bond we share. It gives us a certain... intimacy. If I could, I would return to Dantooine. I need to be away from this bond of ours. I need to weaken it. I need to be anywhere but near you! But Malak must be stopped, my own feelings are nothing when compared to that. Yet I know this could affect the sake of our mission if it is not resolved - I can't let that happen!

Sekkyo:
Just give in to your feelings, Bastila. I know you want to.
If you have something to say, just say it!
You could leave, if you had to.
But I don't feel anything for you, Bastila.

Bastila:
I think... I think we should have some privacy for this. Come with me...

*We run to my bunk*

Bastila:
You're stronger than I am, and there's no point in telling me otherwise. You will be a great Jedi, I think. I hope. In some ways you make me feel weak, like I am caught up in the wake of our destiny. But at the same time, you make me feel stronger, more alive.

Sekkyo:
So what does this mean for us?
And I feel more alive when I'm with you.

Bastila:
I realize now that these feelings are a part of the bond we share. The Jedi Council surely realized this; they knew my loyalty to the doctrines of our Order would be tested on this mission. By facing and overcoming my feelings for you I have learned a valuable lesson about control and the dangers of emotion. This is an important step in understanding the Force. I'm sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear. But I felt it was important for you to know our... infatuation... was nothing more than a result of our powerful bond.

Sekkyo:
So I was just a stepping stone to you becoming a Master?
You're rationalizing, Bastila. You're just scared to face the truth!
So that's it? It's all over?
That's okay - I never felt anything for you anyway.

Bastila:
You're the one who can't face the truth! Malak has to be stopped. How can I do that if I let myself be blinded by my feelings for you?

Sekkyo:
I'm going to stop Malak, Bastila. But I want to do it with you at my side.
That's okay - I never felt anything for you anyway.
I... I understand, Bastila.

Bastila:
You... you mean it, don't you? But how can I be sure you aren't making a mistake. I... I have to resist. I have to be strong for both of us.

Sekkyo:
You know I'm right, Bastila.
You don't always have to be strong, Bastila. Give in just this once.
That's okay - I never felt anything for you anyway.
I... I understand, Bastila.

Bastila:
But I don't... I mean, I can't... Malak will...

Sekkyo:
Shut up and kiss me, you babbling fool.
I love you Bastila. And I know you love me.

Bastila:
Okay, you've made your point. Now shut up and kiss me, you fool!

*5 second fade in and out*

Bastila:
We... we shouldn't have done that. It was wrong. The Jedi aren't allowed to fall in love.

Sekkyo:
It didn't feel wrong to me.
We're not going back to this again, are we?

Bastila:
It was... it was a moment of weakness. When I kissed you... we shouldn't have... no, I'm sorry. I know we both wanted it, but we shouldn't have given in to our desire. We're Jedi! We can't act like this. Not now, not while we still have to deal with Malak! I'm... I'm sorry. I don't blame you, but... it was a mistake. I have to get out of here before somebody sees us together!

*She runs back to the bridge*

Sekkyo:
I want to talk to you about what happened between us.

Bastila:
We've... we've already been over this. It was a moment of weakness, a stumble brought on by unbridled passions. But my emotions are firmly in check once more. We need to stay focused on stopping Darth Malak. And I want the others to stay focused as well. I don't want them to get suspicious and start gossiping about our little encounter! So, until our mission is over we need to act with more discretion. We shouldn't speak of this anymore... not until Malak is defeated!

Interestingly enough, my choices don't give me Dark or Light points. Oh baby! I've personally never been fond of the idea of Jedi celibacy. How else are strong Jedi children supposed to be born? From black sheep parents? I don't think so. I just hope this doesn't end up with her falling completely do the Dark side or dying. If I don't get a happy ending with her I'm going to cry my eyes out.

--- END MAJOR SPOILERS ---

I *heart* Bastila!

shadok

Jedi aren't celibate, not according to the man who invented them.

http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_588484.html

Lucas' Jedi order is actually more than a little creepy. Potential Jedi are identified in infancy and are taken away from their parents to prevent them from forming attachments, which are supposedly dangerous and make them more vulnerable to the dark side. When they grow up, sex is not forbidden, but love, relationships, bonds - everything that makes sex worthwhile, in other words - is verboten and bad.

Bah.

jane

maybe i should see Episode 2. that probably explores the emotional cost of being a Jedi.

oh, wait, i did see it, and it didn't.

PreacherBoy

So how far is everyone in this game? Anyone read the spoilers?

"When they grow up, sex is not forbidden, but love, relationships, bonds - everything that makes sex worthwhile, in other words - is verboten and bad."

Which is why I was able to justify calling that celibacy. I feel the same way. Sex for sex sounds like something more akin to the Dark Side. I think Anakin had it right in what he said in Episode II, he just fell to the Dark Side for other reasons.

Jane! Shame on you! :)

sean

For romance, there's always Amy Brigg's Infocom text adventure Plundered Hearts, which maybe even features pirates or at least swashbuckling. Never played it myself.

jane

hmm, i'll have to check that out. thanks, sean!

Tuxedo Slack

"Potential Jedi are identified in infancy and are taken away from their parents to prevent them from forming attachments, which are supposedly dangerous and make them more vulnerable to the dark side."

The Order is father, the Order is mother. (Ref that, anyone?)

amanda

Wasn't that "the corps..."?

As a female Scout, I didn't get to ask Carth if he was flirting; instead I could inform him that if he said that again, he wouldn't have ears. Perhaps I've just been playing a bit aggro?

The question about emotion in games reminded me of a strange little meme that crawled around E3 this year: "What would a 'Sex and the City' videogame look like?" That was usually in answer to "How do we reach women?" and followed up with "But we don't know how to model emotions like that."

Maybe designers don't give themselves enough credit...

moboid

Nevermind "Sex and the City." We could reach a vast audience of women with a "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" game! Unfortunately, not only do we not know (yet) how to model romance, we don't know how to model wit or taste. Some day....

robyn

As a female scout i was given that same opportunity to flirt. I was all nicey-nice and he didnt trust me, right after calling me beautiful.
"But seriously, i dont trust u" (something to that effect). My boyfriend is mad that girls cant be interested in girls in the game. *shrugs*

Jurie Horneman

Thinking about romance in games, and conversations in KOTOR, led me to write a post on my own blog about how interpersonal interaction in games hasn't advanced for at least ten years. In the end, I don't say a lot about romance anymore, but it might still be of interest.

Nightstar

I dont think jedi are celibate, they just arent allowed to love. In my mind I always thought of them like the Bene Gesserit of Dune. I'm not sure if they mate just for the sake of procreation or not though.

anyways, this is my first post, love the site!

James

The Jedi code in Star Wars does say

"There is no emotion, there is peace"
"There is no ignorance there is knowledge"
"There is no passion, there is serenity"
"There is no chaos, there is harmony"
"There is no death, there is the force"

Notice that the first verse says that "There is no emotion, there is peace" Anakin wanted revenge when the Tuskan raiders killed his mom, I think he was a bit attached to his mom to go that far of killing all the Tuskan Raiders tribe. He did form a attachment with his mom. I wonder why did Anakin say to Obi-wan Kenobi that he was the closest thing he had for a father. Well, love is allowed, but attachment isn't. So, ah what was the whole point in saying that Jedi are taken away when they're only infants anyway? The Jedi can't just steal infants?!!!

James

The Jedi code in Star Wars does say

"There is no emotion, there is peace"
"There is no ignorance there is knowledge"
"There is no passion, there is serenity"
"There is no chaos, there is harmony"
"There is no death, there is the force"

Notice that the first verse says that "There is no emotion, there is peace" Anakin wanted revenge when the Tuskan raiders killed his mom, I think he was a bit attached to his mom to go that far of killing all the Tuskan Raiders tribe. He did form a attachment with his mom. I wonder why did Anakin say to Obi-wan Kenobi that he was the closest thing he had for a father. Well, love is allowed, but attachment isn't. So, ah what was the whole point in saying that Jedi are taken away when they're only infants anyway? The Jedi can't just steal infants?!!!

James

The Jedi code in Star Wars does say

"There is no emotion, there is peace"
"There is no ignorance there is knowledge"
"There is no passion, there is serenity"
"There is no chaos, there is harmony"
"There is no death, there is the force"

Notice that the first verse says that "There is no emotion, there is peace" Anakin wanted revenge when the Tuskan raiders killed his mom, I think he was a bit attached to his mom to go that far of killing all the Tuskan Raiders tribe. He did form a attachment with his mom. I wonder why did Anakin say to Obi-wan Kenobi that he was the closest thing he had for a father. Well, love is allowed, but attachment isn't. So, ah what was the whole point in saying that Jedi are taken away when they're only infants anyway? The Jedi can't just steal infants?!!!

James

The Jedi code in Star Wars does say

"There is no emotion, there is peace"
"There is no ignorance there is knowledge"
"There is no passion, there is serenity"
"There is no chaos, there is harmony"
"There is no death, there is the force"

Notice that the first verse says that "There is no emotion, there is peace" Anakin wanted revenge when the Tuskan raiders killed his mom, I think he was a bit attached to his mom to go that far of killing all the Tuskan Raiders tribe. He did form a attachment with his mom. I wonder why did Anakin say to Obi-wan Kenobi that he was the closest thing he had for a father. Well, love is allowed, but attachment isn't. So, ah what was the whole point in saying that Jedi are taken away when they're only infants anyway? The Jedi can't just steal infants?!!!

James

The Jedi code in Star Wars does say

"There is no emotion, there is peace"
"There is no ignorance there is knowledge"
"There is no passion, there is serenity"
"There is no chaos, there is harmony"
"There is no death, there is the force"

Notice that the first verse says that "There is no emotion, there is peace" Anakin wanted revenge when the Tuskan raiders killed his mom, I think he was a bit attached to his mom to go that far of killing all the Tuskan Raiders tribe. He did form a attachment with his mom. I wonder why did Anakin say to Obi-wan Kenobi that he was the closest thing he had for a father. Well, love is allowed, but attachment isn't. So, ah what was the whole point in saying that Jedi are taken away when they're only infants anyway? The Jedi can't just steal infants?!!!

James

Sorry I accidentally repeated the same things over and over again.

James

Sorry I accidentally repeated the same things over and over again.

James

Sorry I accidentally repeated the same things over and over again.

Carling

I totally LOVED Carth in Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic, and I do see what Jane is talking about, I didn't put the damn game down for at least a month and it was because I wanted to explore the galaxy with Carth...lol he was very appaealing to me and I even found that some parts of the game my character and him would engage in little "squabbles" that are normally seen between two people that like each other in a sort of playful romantic way.

And there were other elements to him that made you turn into a little giggling schoolgirl, the "beautiful" comments he puts into some of the dialog and when he appologizes for insulting you accidentally. He is probably the best "put-together" male character in that game and the fact that I developed a small crush on him did not help. (I even found myself telling my tv to shut the hell up every time Bastilla went up against him when he said something...stupid twit)

maintain

the site and write ups is just to cool

RickRussellTX

I think the important point to remember about "romance" subplots is that they only work as subplots. If the game was all about romance, and it didn't have the core RPG elements (exploration, combat, character advancement), it wouldn't be much of a game. It would just be THE SIMS, without the thrill of buying new stuff :-)

I think the romance subplots in KOTOR worked very well, albeit with some scripting problems. E.g, on my play-through with a female character, Carth stopped talking to her after the second planet, and I can't figure out why. She was light-side, she was nice to him and followed all the romance dialog options. He never responded after that.

With that said, when the romance plots worked (Bastila and Juhani), they worked very well.

Rick R.

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