Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

Posted by: Mr. Mechanical on July 13, 2005 08:49 PM

You tellem Mike, Dang politos - they are just greedy little !@#$ers.

I say we should pay public officers like we pay the military - then we'll see them change's thier tune...

my $0.02

Posted by: -Christopher on July 14, 2005 07:41 AM

Actually, this is a case where I actually do want to see this sort of thing discussed. We have here a very interesting question at stake: How responsible is a game publisher for the content of a disc, if some of that content is not legally accessible (the mod hack is a violation of EULA, I believe)? That the mod is "readily accessible" on the internet is not important. There are plenty of sexually explicit mods for the T-rated Sims and Sims 2 that are just as accessible (arguably more accessible, since there are more people who own the game required to actually use the mod). What is unique in this case is that explicit content was created by the developer, rendered inacessible from within the game's systems, but still shipped to the gaming public.

Also important is the question of how responsible is the ESRB for rating content that cannot be accessed strictly through the game itself? We already allow online games to qualify their ESRB rating with "experience may change during online play," to reflect the fact that people not affiliated with the developer or publisher may use the game to do something explicit. The case of San Andreas things are less clear (I know what I think, but I can understand why others think differently).

Now that said, I'm pretty sure that Clinton et al are just going to use this as an opportunity for political grandstanding. But seriously, we need to talk about this publicly. Maybe, just maybe, that opportunity will arise.

Posted by: ClockworkGrue on July 14, 2005 09:32 AM

The game publisher is entirely responsible for the content of the disks as distributed and I don't think the EULA provisions can be used as a shield. By analogy, if a book were sold only to purchasers who agreed in writing not to read page 666, on which explicit material was printed, it would be silly for the publisher to deny responsibility for the contents. Wouldn't it? I don't see how this is different.

A more interesting case would be presented where the user-created mod added the content in question by using functions intentionally left open to modders by the publisher.

Any chance Rockstar saw all this coming and left the content in on a controversy-is-the-best-publicity basis?

Posted by: Phil on July 14, 2005 01:51 PM

Not to overly polarize this, but I actually think that the Dems have been the ones holding court on "saving the children from video-games."

As far as the senators concerned with gaming, Dick Durbin, Joe Leiberman, and Hillary Clinton come to mind, all of the "D" persuasion.

If any R's have been outspoken on gaming (in a negative light), please throw down some links. I need to know who not to vote for.

"The game publisher is entirely responsible for the content of the disks as distributed and I don't think the EULA provisions can be used as a shield. By analogy, if a book were sold only to purchasers who agreed in writing not to read page 666, on which explicit material was printed, it would be silly for the publisher to deny responsibility for the contents. Wouldn't it? I don't see how this is different."

This is a slippery argument. The book example isn't a very appropriate one. A better one would be someone ripping a hidden .vob file off of a DVD. The problem here is that unless you know how to do it, the content is entirely unaccessable. It's not like turning to a page in a book. It's like reading the entire book cover to cover, and not knowing that you had to bathe the book in a chemical and a special light to see the hidden text.

The problem here isn't that there was hidden sex on the disk. The sex is not in the game as it was shipped.

The problem is that politicians are going for a patsy. As was pointed out in another thread, Sims has sex in it. Even without the mods. It's under the covers, but it's in there.

It's just a case of taking down an easy target.

Posted by: bowler on July 14, 2005 02:44 PM

Quick Update: It's looking more and more like the sexual content was actually part of Rockstar's code (GameDaily article), which undermines their position a bit.

Posted by: Clubberjack on July 14, 2005 02:46 PM

bowler:

a quick scan of the article linked to in the post above yields this statement:

"[Sen. Clinton] joined with Senators Joe Lieberman (D-CT), Sam Brownback (R-KS), and Rick Santorum (R-PA)"

Clinton, Lieberman, and Gore have been the celebrity critics of videogame naughtiness, but far be it from the GOP to miss out on a "think of the children" argument.

Posted by: ClockworkGrue on July 14, 2005 02:57 PM

Awesome, thanks Clockwork. (Sorry I didn't read it; stupid busy). Nobody in my state yet, so I'm just going to keep voting against Durbin then.

Posted by: bowler on July 14, 2005 03:19 PM

"It's not like turning to a page in a book. It's like reading the entire book cover to cover, and not knowing that you had to bathe the book in a chemical and a special light to see the hidden text."

So the publisher doesn't assume that someone is going to find an enable this stuff? Or that those who find and enable it will tell others how to do so? That strikes me as implausible.

More likely it was an originally intended feature that they decided was too risque but were too lazy to remove from the code. Either that, or they hoped to dodge responsibility for it by requiring others to unlock it.

I don't come at this from a "save the children" angle, but neither do I question Rockstar's responsibility for whatever is on their disks. I do question their candor to the ESRB, however, as well as their judgment in leaving this stuff in their final product.

The worst thing about it is that it feeds the paranoid "media conspiracy to corrupt our youth" meme and further legitimates both reactionary moralist conservatives and censorship-minded liberal bureaucrats.

Posted by: Phil on July 14, 2005 03:44 PM

Well, any defense they may have had about it being PC only and a mod is evaporating quickly.

Kotaku just reported that someone found out how to get the PS2 version to do it through whatever that newest GameShark style device is.

Posted by: bowler on July 15, 2005 08:44 AM

By children we mean those that can access the game: "persons ages 17 and older"

Snip it at the source. Hold retailers responsible for selling M games to children. The should not have access to rated M games and those that do, its either the fault of the parents or the store that did not check their ID.

I wouldnt care if they sold M rated games in an adult store (like some european countries). I just want this protect the children debate over with regards to M rated games.

Posted by: raf on July 15, 2005 01:51 PM

So. Senator Hillary Clinton is preparing to discuss Rockstar over a cup of Hot Coffee.

I wish it were a discussion, instead of shrill condemnations. I've been mentally composing a letter about this for days now, even though I know nobody who needs to read it ever will.

Posted by: Malkyne on July 18, 2005 02:00 AM

Most funny thing is that the US gov is always out for it when it comes to sex! They don't ban it because of the tons of violence! Give our children more guns! They have to defend themselves from these naked flesh!

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