Brilliant material, and I've never seen the Goth Victorian spin so well interpreted. Excellent stuff!

Look forward to reading more of your work. Stunning, really.

-e

It seems to me that these costume cultures in Japan is that they are strongly bracketed: participation in them stops completely by the early 20's, if not sooner. In the US, we see a lot more bleed-through with subcultures, some people participating in them well into their late 20's and beyond.

If you ask a Gothic-Lolita how long she will do this weekend-dressup, she will frequently say "oh, until I'm 22 or so" or something, or "until I go to university." Ask an American goth the same thing, and they will say something like "this is who I am." It seems like in Japan, there's a clearer sense that they are just performing these alternate identities during that short window of freedom that is youth.

I would agree with you William, except that I have strong memories of my weekends on trains outside of Tokyo when I saw retirement-age men wearing lederhosen with tall socks, caps with small feathers and leather vests, carrying walking sticks, ready for a day of hiking. Costume for purpose. More extreme than anything I saw in the US - in the US, people wear goretex to hike, new-fangled plastics - not a costume from "Heidi" central casting.

There's a rich sense of costuming at all ages in Japan. You may be right that these women may ditch "gothic lolita" in their mid-20s, but I suspect there will be another costume there to take its place. Hopefully it will have some of the whimsey and provocative qualities of the creepy cute Lolita Goths.

Justin, agreed, and I'd take it a step further and say that the American response as given by William above is more indicative of an unhealthy cultural phenomenon than anything the japanese, or any other culture that freely and happily "plays" with costumes, exhibit.

"This is who I am" denotes a complete disintegration of the person's grasp on reality. Cosplay kids, convention goers, renaissance/medieval re-enactors, while perhaps odd to many of us, are merely playing and exploring their fantasies. "This is who I am" goths (all the way down to Slim Shady wannabes, et al) are not playing: they are believing. It gets especially worrysome when the manufactured realities these people live in include extreme violence, or really violence of any kind. (How many white suburban american teenaged boys think they are gangsta rappers and pack heat? How many japanese cosplay kids get as violent?)

Just a quick superfical comment on a topic that is probably worthy of numerous PhD disserations and the subject of serious socio-cultural investigations.

Boris, I don't know that I'd go so far as to depict the American sense of elective affinity as inherently unhealthy - it seems in keeping with the American tradition of self-reinvention (which allows people to switch careers and lifestyles throughout their lives - a freedom which is harder to win in much else of the world.) I think Justin's point is well-taken, though - there's a sort of "drag" element in Japanese culture - it may even be related to the theatrical tradition and the relative recency of dramatic realism.

As an aside about drag and Japanese theater, I recall the debate that went on about the inclusion of women in kabuki. Supposedly, three great kabuki actors were debating whether women should finally be allowed back on the kabuki stage, after having been disallowed from acting during the early Tokugawa era. One said, "no, it's a violation of what has become a great tradition." The other said, "the traditions have changed, it's time to be open-minded and up-to-date." The last one said, "there's no point. The characters have developed the way they have for the past 400 years. At this point, the women would be acting like men acting like women."

I do think there's a sense by which the American anxiety about being "authentically" what one wants to become leads to the sort of thing you were talking about, Boris - the suburban youth who wish to make their "enactment" of gangster-mythos real by carrying guns and hurting people, while there's not really the same craving for such "authenticity" in the cosplay/drag realm.

I think it would be painting with a broad brush to say that all American elective affinites are equally dysfunctional or deluded - there's also a lot of ironic distance and self-deprecating humor out there in some of those subcultures.

There is certainly something very Japanese about this particular craze but it also fits neatly into the world of pop that's been around in Western countries since the 60s at least. George Melly's excellent book "Revolt into Style" lays it out pretty clearly; pop mines previous culture for anything it can use to make some sort of statement (think of the Beatles in their Sergeant Pepper outfits) and to create a style, and the very act of commandeering other cultural images is, at first, a rebellion against convention. Having read Melly's book (now out of print, I'm afraid), about twenty years ago, I began a novel I was then writing, "It was the year London teenagers began dressing as cartoon characters." Life imitates (unpublished) art.

William: Yes of course! Agreed. That is why I said "Just a quick superfical comment on a topic that is probably worthy of numerous PhD disserations and the subject of serious socio-cultural investigations."

Sometimes one must paint with a wide brush to get an idea across, lest one get bogged down in details (which can get cleaned up later). :)

I think the CosPlay phenomenon quite related to, though not a direct extension of the whole rebellious attitude of dressing in Japan. Grey and blue suits still predominate the urban landscape, white shirts and ties still are the norm, so much so that when I saw the Matrix re-enactment grouping in Shibuya, my first impression was that it must be another season when students graduating go to interview for jobs, like they do every April.
Cosplay is a restrained form of self-expression. It is easily undone. Most of the piercings are either fake or very discrete. Most of the tattoos are washed away at the end of the day.
If you go to Harajuku early enough, you'll see the kids changing into their outfits, because there's no way they'd walk around their home neighborhoods in that garb.
Wild hair color is pretty normal in Tokyo, so much that even the elderly often sport a green or purple 'doo. It's interesting to note, though, that the top selling hair colors for young Japanese are the natural blacks and browns, because kids know that if there's a wedding or a funeral or a job inteview or a visit from a rich relative, respect must be shown with a return to conformity.
So I guess what I'm getting at is that unlike the US, Japanese kids are having fun playing dress-up, not forging some sort of self-styled identity like their American counterparts.
It's an escape for these kids, a chance to stand out from the crowd and get a bit of attention for their creativity and sewing skills - it's weird, but it gets their picture in the Asian edition of Time Magazine about once a month which may be all they're really after...

Like most Americans, the impression you've gotten of the Gothic & Lolita style is pretty inaccurate, at least in the matter of intent. We don't wear the cute dresses to be disturbing or creepy, or to really send any message concerning the ironic sexuality of it. The whole purpose of the EGL style ends at cute. It's a subculture that goes along with the visual kei style/music. We dress up for concerts or to go to a park on Sundays to show off our dresses, because the only response we really want to provoke is, "Oh, my! How adorable!"

It's not much the same as a girl who dresses in the "kinderwhore" style, or "adult baby". It's not much akin to the typical American goth style, either. The purpose is not to alienate the mundane masses (though that happens inevitably), it's just to look pretty in an incredibly elegant and detailed way.

Or at least that's how my Lolita friends and I feel.

I really don't think you've written appropriately about the Gothic Lolitas. I have NEVER met a Lolita who has purposely tried to be "creepy". I have met Loli's who have wanted to be beautiful, elegant, and romantic. But never creepy. While there may be some people who lean towards a "creepy goth lolita" inclination, the majority of the Gothic Lolitas that I have met are not like that. Also, you failed to even touch on the sweet/country Lolitas. Maybe you should do a little more research next time you write about them.

i agree with mary. although it seens pretty obvious that people are going to have their own opinions on somehting, especially when looking in from the outside, sometimes its better to talk to people involved before making assumptions.

yes, there are some girls and boys as well who dress Elegant Gothic Lolita to sort of embody cinicism toward youth, acting like sexualized child symbols, but they are a true minority.

for the most part, at least in america, the groups that are darker or sexualized "lolitas" ae the kinderwhores or adult babys. they are there to tap into the fantasy of virginity and youth. the lolita culture, is for the most part a group of women, girls, boys, and men who try to recapture the beauty and innocence of youth. beneath the layers of frill, we are normal, everyday people, possibly hurt or hardened by life, or maybe just refusing to grow up ^_^

in an era where we are terminally rushed, over schedualed and pressured to be prefect at all times, the Lolita culture makes us take time to be polite, kind, and graceful. who wouldnt want to go back in time to a simpler, slower youth, where innocence and beauty are safe and not shunned or threatened?

With all due respect, I don't think you really understand what Gothic Lolita is all about. I may just be rehashing what a few other posters have said, but...
Personally, I like the Gothic Lolita fashion because it's complicated and elegant and a return to an older time. The more lace, ruffles, and frills, the better. And all in black and white, of course.
I think most Japanese Lolitas would be horrified by the idea of using goth to freak people out (the way Americans always seem to be doing). It is not about being shocking or sinister. It is about being cute, sweet, elegant, or refined.
It seems to me that you're just reading things into Gothic Lolita that aren't actually there in order to provide material for your article.

Ms. Pinckard:

I would like to offer my humble compliments to your wonderful, thought-provoking article. I thought it was a very interesting, plesantly academic view of Gothic Lolita style as a singular facet of the broader Cosplaying culture.

As an enthusiast of Gothic Lolita's protective brother-fashion, Gothic Aristocrat, I want to express my appreciation for understanding and portraying the Gothic Lolita subculture, neither as fetishized sex objects nor as asexual innocents, but as young women in control of and empowered by their own sexuality and creativity. It gratifies me to see that you understand they are not trying to be the play things of elder men, nor are they completely unaware of their own strange and forbidding allure.

I would also like to add my appreciation for your understanding of the *Gothic* Lolita's general facination for the beauty in the morbid and bizzaire. I think you really do have a remarkable grasp upon this particular branch of Japanese Lolita subculture, as you do include this aspect in the psychology of the Gothic Lolita, and do not merely dismiss it as a fanciful turn of dress. Your own playful and slightly mysterious tone adds a particular enjoyment to this aspect.

Your work here has been most educational and stimulating to me, and in my humble oppinion, has been the most substantial article written on this particular subculture in the English language thus far. I would love to see your analysis of the other facets of Lolita, and perhaps your take on Gothic Aristocrat as well, if you think it merits distinction from Gothic Lolita.

Sincerely and admiringly,
Morgen Stern @--,---'---

I think you should read up on G&L culture before making your own assumptions. G&L fashion has little to do with being "Gothic". I certainly don't agree that Gothic Lolitas are trying to be creepy. Infact, that just doesn't make any sense.

"I certainly don't agree that Gothic Lolitas are trying to be creepy. Infact, that just doesn't make any sense."

First off...who said 'creepy' was a BAD THING? Hell no, it's mysterious, and interesting.

Second off...there are lolita styles, even in japan, that are NOT gothic. Take sweet, or country lolita. Their goal is to recapture the innocence of childhood that previous posters have described. The entire point of adding the gothic element, then, must be to take that and add a slight undercurrent of the creepy and the dark. This is interesting. This is beautiful. This is not something to be offended about.

As for the article itself...Ms Pinckard, you're a psychology or sociology student, aren't you? You read a bit too much into a lot of things...things that could very well be right, but probably have more simple solutions. Try looking for them in the future. Occam's razor and all.

I'd like to address a few comments from people who seem to disagree with Ms. Pinckard's opinions of the Goth Lolita subgenre. Firstly, if cute is the only goal, why choose a gothic style? Certainly there are more easily recognizable cute genres out there that encompass the cute spectrum. While maybe the initial idea wasn't to be "creepy" per se, it should have been realized that it would be a common reaction. There is a reason behind everything we do, even if it's subconcious.

And if there isn't some inherent sexuality about it, then why is it even called Lolita? Certainly Nabakov himself would've recognized the subtle underpinnings of sexuality and arrested libido in such costumery.

Alright Sean. Point taken, but you forget that this is a style that was invented in, and for the most part is only seen, in Japan. The attitudes towards "goth" in Japan aren't quite what they are in the US, or anywhere else, for that matter. Seeing as Japan is not a Christian-based society, there isn't the assumption that "goths" are all satan-worshippers, or whatever nonsense. Besides that, it's a title based merely on appearances. Elegant Gothic Lolita's are not what Goths in any other country would call gothic at all.

So, say that it *was* intended to be 'creepy' and sexualized? If you talked to many of the cosplayers today, I think you'd find that they have anything but either of those things on their minds. This is, for most of them, an (albeit overly-elaborate) trend.

(note: I'm talking about cos-players, I realize that many do take it as more than just a trend.)

Honestly, I do agree with you on the sexualized bit of it. I think my fellow Lolita's are confusing *naked* with sexy. There *is* something very sexy in showing very, very little skin at all. There's something sexy about innocence and purity, and all of those sort of things. At the same time, I agree with the original author (although I don't recall her name at the moment, and I'm too lazy to scroll up) that the style is also sort of a slap on the hand to older creepy men. "I am sexy, but also innocent and pure, and you can't have me."

What most of the Elegant Gothic Lolitas, who have posted on this list, are upset about is the misinterpretation in Western countries. The idea that Elegant Gothic Lolita is meant to be sort of a "kinder-whore", "daddy, I've been a very bad girl" sort of thing. As a result of this misinterpretation, people new to the style tend to wear shorter skirts, show as much skin as possible, etc. Precisely the opposite of the original style.

p.s. Boris? What is so "unhealthy" about Western Goths responding with "this is who I am?" Making a comparison to "gangster-rap" kids, is unfair as those "Eminem-wannabes" pose a threat, and all Goths want to do is sit in a room, listen to The Cure and cry. :D (Just a little joke.)

I AM EXTREAMLY PISSED OFF BY THIS ARTICLE. It doesn't anywhere metion the Contry Lolita Style and is VERY MISSLEADING. I think the aucthor should have spent more time reseaching this insted of getting a few facts and doing a half ass job on the topic.

ivy

the second pic totally reminded me of chobits not that I don't see the amish bit, but immediately I thought of cosplay only to realize that those doing the cosplays might have had something different in mind than that. Also the Hair color is wrong had that been the original intent yet still I am able to get the images of clamp's latest import wunderkind out of my mind.

Whoa you guys are really taking this seriously! As both a lolita and a cosplayer I can say I do this for fun, anime cons are the one time a year that i can dress as i please and act like the rabid anime freak that i am. While being a lolita, since i was always goth, I think of it more as a lifestyle. Lolis are a branch off of goth, its cute and i like everything dark and cute. So a mixing of the two would only make sense right? Guys! We do it because we like it, its fun to us, it makes us feel pretty! End of story! Leave us alone! :P

Um, are any of these soi-disant goth-lolitas responding so defensively on this thread actually, erm, Japanese?

i'm japanese (1/4 french, 1/4 english, but lets not get into that) and i've gotta say this is a very, erm, western article. some wierd bouts of selective non-observation from those who want to believe it too. (one of the comments mentions - correctly- that blue and grey suits are order of the day in tokyo(for office workers only though, and thats the same for any big company in the world, right?), and then says he thought that TWO HUNDRED GUYS IN BLACK SUITS AND SUNGLASSES were "students going for a job interview"???). with that kind of penetrating eye for detail its not surprising that people conveniently throw "gothloli" in with "cosupure" when they aren't really the same thing at all. most gothloli's are just following a fashion of a pop ("visual") band they like, will do it for a year or 2 while at junior high school, and then stop. exactly like a J-Lo fan or a Limp Bizkit fan. nothing special there. i think young american girls with low-rider jeans look just as "extreme" as a japanese girl in a cute lace dress. Most of them don't even know what "goth" (in the Bauhaus/Nefilim sense) is.

SOME of those girls (the more strong willed ones) like the loli style regardless of bands, magazines etc, and it is just part of their taste (like i might wear gap or you wear jeans, whatever) and they look like that when they are 25, 30, and so on.

Most coslayers on the other hand are late teen and up (WAYYY up, though i havent seen many over 40), and are nerds into comics and games. It's a hobby, not a fashion or music thing. Of course, because of the popularity of the loli style, many game/comic characters now wear that style, so many cosplayers also have those items for when they "do" that character. but they also have plenty of different outfits. oh, this is all getting very long, sorry. i won't even start on the fact that the 2CH "matrix off" event WASN'T performed by "cosplayers" (statisically there must have been a few among them though i guess).

The weirdest comment was about individuals who dress up as an occasional hobby "exploring" their identity in a safe way (how condescending is that?? what are you referencing "dressing up" to?? the absolute standard of "basic clothing" as measured by..what??) and what about "this-is-who-i-am goths have no grip on reality"...? er..
if someone always dresses in, say, goth/loli (or gap) style everyday, couldn't it possibly be that "who they are" is just a person who likes some particular mode of clothes?

next time maybe do the observation first BEFORE you make the theory?

Unfortuneatly human culture is brought up to make interpretations about people before we actually get to know them. I mean the first time you see someone, your going to make a lot of assumptions about who they are. Now if you take the time to commune and interact with said individual, you will determine which of your "theories" are true or not. Too bad we never have the time to talk with everybody we see/encounter in our lives eh?

On another note, I feel that cosplay and such are just something that you do to enjoy yourself. Sure people take it too far some times, but most folk, myself included, just do it because it's fun. It's why kids dress up for Halloween, and older people dress up at conventions, they won't be ridiculed for it. I would love to dress up in crazy outfits, but I suppose my self-esteem isn't quite high enough to just not care what others think.

Now to those who cosplay outside of organized events, I would like to congradulate you on attaining a state of self-esteem that I myself, and many others, have not been able to attain yet.

you are absolutely right about "assumptions"- but this article can inform those assumptions so people can make better ones; and if they see a japanese girl with blond punkish hair, a ton of face piercings and red/white contact lenses they could think
"oh, she likes that band dir en grey"
OR
"she is a cosplayer, hanging out with her friends to roleplay and..."
the first is probably correct.

finally, teenagers anywhere in big towns aren't so different, and ALL culture has good, bad, and sometimes very similar points. don't put too much meaning into "because it's japanese"- that means you too american lolita-chans!! (am glad you like the fashion though (^.^)

apology- two LAST things.

we do NOT call visual kei girls (or boys)or gothloli girls "otaku". cosplayers, maybe.

one of my friends is "gothloli" everyday, and she is 24, has a good job, and listens to ayumi hamasaki (ordinary pop, not visual kei). i don't think she is so very unusual in this.

well.. really.. the term isn't supposed 2 b otaku... because it's the american slang term... somthing that starts w/ a T... but... my japanese isn't excelent yet... Gothic Lolita has been around for a long time... lolita was a book back in the 50s over here... about a perverted old man... who liked young girls... notice... that the stuff looks soo cute and litte girl sorta stuff.. that's why... (LOLITA) Gothic is because most of the clothes are black and white... and then u have ur gothic lolita punk.. who can b a lil scary @ times... even some like elementary kids in japan dress in gothic lolita.. though, more hs school students do it =) there are many different brands that make the gothic lolita stuff over in japan... though all of it is expensive... Gothic Lolita was originally made by fans of j-rock... to copy their idols... the way that they dress... and that's the story of gothic lolita

"The creepy cuteness is meant to disturb, to provoke"

Is it? Or is that solely your outlook on it?

As someone stated above "Like most Americans, the impression you've gotten of the Gothic & Lolita style is pretty inaccurate, at least in the matter of intent. We don't wear the cute dresses to be disturbing or creepy, or to really send any message concerning the ironic sexuality of it."

I think this article is a very westernized view as to what "gothic lolita" is. It's really nothing more than a fashion movement, with no sexual undertones or hidden meanings behind it.

It also has little to do with the gothic subculture, and it's pretty clear that you know little to nothing about it. "Goth", (the most recent terminology), refers to a musical movement that started out in the 70's and pretty much died in the 80's, although there are still fans of the music out there. Goth music consists of bands like Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Joy Division, Christian Death, Tear Garden, Legendary Pink Dots, and so on. The gothic lolita style is probably associted with the goth movement because of gothic fashion. I personally am a fan of gothic music and the GL style, because it's very similar to the attire I usually wear, except more dressy, more girly, lacey, and cute. Goths aren't out to shock, disturb, or provoke anyone -- it's usually silly ignorant people that just think that we are because we dress in all black, and don't look like they do.

Alright, I've been doing a research project of Gothic & Lolita for my Japanese class and I noticed this thread while searching for the origins of Lolita fashion. I figured I might as well try doing an English search in the off-chance that it had any basis in the West, like gothic fashion, but I don't seem to be having any luck. But if you want to understand and analyze Lolita fashion, you can't really go by what you find on english language sites. Most of the people writing these articles don't seem to have much knowledge of Japanese, so they're cut off from almost all resources. They have to rely on what they can see. Given that fact, I was quite impressed by Ms. Pinckard's analysis. She was able to pick up on the fact that Lolitas are not interested in the attentions of men with Lolita Complexes, which is more than can be said for a lot of other analyses I've found online.

If you read through the thread, you'll notice something. Pretty much every single Lolita who responds emphasizes the fact that Lolita is not supposed to be sexual. That should tell you something. If all the Lolitas say that they they're not trying to be sexual, guess what? It's not about being sexual. Now I understand where this misconception comes from. It is a perfectly natural conclusion for a Westerner to make. The origins of the term Lolita DO come from Nabokov's book about a pedophile. The term Lolita Complex IS used in Japan to signifiy older men who like younger girls. This is completely true. But the Lolita is still not trying to be sexual.

If you read Japanese source material on Lolita culture, they emphasize over and over how they are not trying to be sexual. I know because I have read Japanese source material written by Lolitas about themselves. It's in the Gothic Lolita Bible. If you talk to Lolitas, they'll tell you the same. In fact, I would still have this misconception about Lolitas being sexual if it wasn't for a good friend of mine from Japan explaining to me how surprised she was that her boyfriend found Lolita fashion attractive.

Oh, and that's another thing Ms. Pinckard got right. Men in Japan apparently aren't that interested in Lolita fashion. They like real little girls, not older girls dressed up as dolls. My friend was extremely surprised that her boyfriend found her outfits attractive. It was thoroughly ingrained in her head that this was just not an ideal that men found appealing. The entire point of the style is that you're supposed to be doing it for yourself, not for other people. Of course, not everyone lives up to that.

Now maybe you don't believe me. Maybe you're still sitting there, convinced that Nabokov's Lolita is what these girls are going for. So then, if that's true, then explain to me this: Why in the world did Lolitas choose to create an alternate spelling in katakana for Lolita?

When I started doing research, I did a search for Lolita and came up with a bunch of kiddy porn sites. I could find information on the Gothic part but not on Lolitas at all. I was disheartened and figured maybe the subculture wasn't big enough to even warrant webpages. That seemed really odd to me, though, since a lot of subcultures tend to proliferate on the web. Actually, as it turns out, I was spelling the word wrong. You see, Lolitas really do NOT want the attention of men, especially perverted older men. So in order to avoid this, they created an alternate spelling of the word Lolita using a subset i for the long vowel sound. (In katakana, you normally use a dash for a long vowel sound, and that's what the Lolita in Lolita Complex uses. It's also what the Gothic Lolita Bible uses, which is why I assumed it would be the same.)

By creating an alternate spelling for Lolita, they could create a world for themselves. Not only does it keep the perverts out, but it allows Lolitas to find pages by other Lolitas without having to wade through a bunch of kiddy porn. This is the reasoning given by the merumaga (mail magazine, I think it's the Japanese word for zine) Shuumatsu Lolita (roughly translated as Weekend Lolita.) I have heard this echoed by other webpages and various Gothic Lolita friends of mine.

In the Gothic Lolita Bible, whenever they talk about what it means to be a Lolita, sexuality never comes up. It's almost a non-issue, that they don't even bother to negate it. It's about being cute, but also about aesthetics. The term they use is bigaku, bi meaning beauty and gaku meaning study, so it's really the study of beauty.

Another problem I noticed while reading this thread is that people have not made a distinction between the ideal Gothic Lolita and the actual reality of Gothic Lolita. Ideally, a Gothic Lolita should represent certain things. There's a whole way of thinking and a lifestyle behind it. In reality, some people might wear the dresses just because they're cute or because they want to get attention. There was a television special about Gothic Lolita in Japan that I watched where a couple of girls expressed these latter viewpoints. The point that should be made here is that not all Gothic Lolitas are alike. There's a lot of diversity within the community and, as with any subculture, there are some people in it who are just "going through a phase" and there are others who will spend their entire life with this identity.

Regarding the creepy thing, I'd say whether one is trying to be "creepy" or not depends on whether they're more Gothic or Lolita. A lot of the people who responded are probably more on the Lolita side. It also depends how you define creepy. The emphasis, whether Gothic or Lolita, is on beauty and aesthetics. Some consider the grotesque, the macabre and the dark to be beautiful. For some beautiful is cute or elegant. Ultimately, the sense you get from reading articles written by Goths, Lolitas, or Gothic Lolitas is that they are trying to embody whatever they deem beautiful. Of course, the people who are writing these articles are the people who are fully immersed in the culture. It makes sense. If you're just doing it because it's the latest fad, then you're probably not going to dedicate a lot of time to it. Why would you write articles about it if you didn't care about it? Obviously, the writings that you'll read written by these people will be biased in favor of those who are really dedicated to it and willing to put time into it. (And it's usually best to base your research on primary sources rather than secondary sources, although secondary sources do have their value.)

I'm no expert on this issue and I'm not a Lolita or a Gothic Lolita myself. However, I did not pull all of this stuff out thin air. I did the research. I studied. I can give you sources, links, and people to talk to if you want them. If you're really interested, I encourage you to learn the Japanese language and do research yourself. If you're not willing to go that far, then at least listen to people who aren't making random conclusions, but have actually gone through the trouble of studying the subject.

Now it's entirely possible that there is a giant Lolita conspiracy out there in order to fool all the people of the world, even other Lolitas, into believing that Lolita is not about sex when it actually is. If you want to buy into that theory, then that would be the only way that saying Lolita is meant to be sexual would make sense. Yes, the term comes from Nabokov's book. Lolitas know this. But the Japanese have a tendency of taking terms and reshaping their meanings for their own purposes. Sometimes they even make up new meanings. This isn't even something that's particular to the Japanese. Just look at the word queer. For a long time, it was an insult used to apply to homosexuals, but at a certain point, it was actually picked up by the gay community and used in a positive way. Subcultures sometimes take words and reshape their meanings to fit their purposes. Sometimes these words come to mean something completely different from their original intent. That's just the way language is. If you're not a part of that group, you might not be able to understand what a word means, so if you misinterpret it, that's not really your fault. But if someone goes out of their way to teach you, then my advice is listen to them. You might actually learn something new.

Oh, and if anyone could correct me or supply me with information on the origins of Lolita fashion in Japan (Did it come from the West? Is it a purely Japanese invention? What's the deal?) I'd really appreciate it if you could e-mail me. This thread is probably dead by now, but I figured I might as well try. Hmm... although considering the length of this post, I wonder if anyone will get to the end of it... ^^; Even Japanese sites don't have information on how it started, just what it's about and the origin and reshaping of the word Lolita.

--Nadia

good article, very articulate. my only gripe is that there wasn't any representation of the gothic-lolita or cosplay scenes in the us. it could've been used for a nice contrast, or comparison--however you see it. :D

personally i'm a bit biased, because i'm a proud cosplayer. i usually dress up because i really, really like the character. i sew up the outfits, and when i'm wearing them... well, i feel great. :D conventions are like big costume parties for me. i love to spread the word about my favorite series/characters/designs.

thanks for mentioning cosplay.com, by the way. i've been a member of the boards for about two years now... it's such a great community. we occasionally have our costume dramas, but that passes and we all generally get along. :D

Nadia- Lolita fashion was partly begun by a (male) guitarist called Mana who dresses in Lolita. He also invented the names 'Elegant Gothic Lolita' and 'Elegant Gothic Aristocrat'. The fashion was partly inspired by Victorian Mourning Fashion, and Alice in Wonderland. Things like that. Lolita fashion is not usually just to be creepy, it is to capture the innocence of youth, and in Japanese culture, youth is one of the most beautiful things, just as in the west, maturity is beautiful. Lolitas generally stop being Lolita when theyre somewhere in their 20s, and begin to wear Aristocrat clothes. Aristocrat is a more mature look, with lots of black, red, and some white. They wear long skirts and trousers, and often wear long gloves, to cover as much flesh as possible.

'Elegant Gothic Lolita' and 'Elegant gothic Aristocrat' are the most beautiful styles I have ever seen in my life such wonderful victorian clothing along with the adult style and smart looks of the aristocrat. For those who don't know mana he was one of the most beautiful and brave males of japan that would actually show his true side and did what he wanted, looked like he wanted, and made some of the best j-rock music in history.I myself have great respect for Him and his style, I to wear 'Elegant Gothic Aristocrat'.It is best for things like these styles to happen , because the world would be a very , VERY dull place. You never, know they may think our western style is weird and ugly but 'you' dont see them ( the Elegant Gothic Lolita's ) patronizing and criticising your style.

after awhile i stopped reading this thread. but can i stress that Nabakov and Lolita have nothing to do with the gothic and lolita fashion and culture. someone mentioned that. yes, there are people that sexualize the G&L fashion. than again there are people that have scat fetishes as well. i, being a loli, do not like being thought of as a dolores haze. im sure my fellow lolitas will agree. we aren't "kinder whores", we dont do things like bend over and when our frilly underwear shows go "oppsie" *giggles*, and pretend to be embarassed. that is creepy. not my attire or my polite, modest and non seductive manners.

Perhaps the Western view of the gothic lolita subculture is predominantly skewed by the fact that the Victorian era, obviously from which the gothic lolitas borrow their fashion, is a symbol of sexual repression at all costs. It also brought about the creation of some of the more widely-known, but not necessarily accepted, fetishes: S&M, equestrian, etc. There is also a substantial following of fetishistic subcultures based on the period dress, with corsetry especially. I am not terribly familiar with the Japanese view on the Victorian Era, but I completely understand where the author is coming from. I think that it is a wonderful and informative article, and the Western flavor is particularly interesting...even if it isn't entirely correct in its assumptions and interpretations.

Well, to bring up something that isn't really being discussed here, there are girls who wear EGL clothing everyday, or whenever they can. And yes, while they may stop at 22 - they go into EGA after that. This is hardly a new scene - there are girls dressing up who's mothers were wearing these clothes.

There is more to the EGLs than their clothes. There's also an attitude that goes along with it. If an American Loli says "This is who I am," she doesn't mean the clothes, she means the attitude, and the style. And it IS who she is. You cannot tell how old you'll be when your skirts start going to the floor and turn into an aristocrat, though it usually is around 22-24 (though, it does seem to be an American thing to hold onto it longer, but we're also 'younger at heart' here, to quote my Japanese friend Michiko).

Rather than "This is how long I'll wear it," or "This is who I am" it's more "These are the clothes I wear. It reflects who I am now, and what I strive to be."

Trust me, you don't spend up to thousands of dollars on EGL clothing (which isn't uncommon in Japan) so that you can treat it as just a weekend fashion style. The girls that dress up on the weekends are cosplaying, but that doesn't reflect those of us that choose to make this an everyday thing - and we're all around the world, not just in America, and not just in Japan.

As for the sexual aspect of it, I don't think that's relevant at all. A Lolita does not try to be sexy - if she is, than she is, and that's really in the eye of the beholder. A Lolita tries to be elegant and pretty (whether that is through the frills and lace of something from Angelic Pretty, or a dark and ripped dress from Alice Auaa), and if she (and sometimes he) looks sexy doing so, that's good for them, but it's not the overall point or aspect of the fashion.

And that's my dime..

As an American goth that started out at the age of 15 in the mid 1980s, I find that the idea of "this is who I am..." refers to the WISH to BE what the costume or manner of dress presents to the world.

Now I'm almost 30, very much into my second year of the "Elegant Gothic Sophisticate" manner of dress (supplemented, of course, with the prerequisite LEVI'S and an assortment of black conventional clothes).

The major thing that I want to point out is the difference between the youthful "hiding" in a costume and the choice as an adult to RETURN to the style as an affirmation of my individuality and rejection of the manner of dress imposed by the corporate world.

I do not, in any way, feel that I have BECOME my costume or manner of dress. Rather, I feel very sophisticated when I go out in EGS clothing... I feel that it is an extension of my true taste.

The costumes and accessories ARE fabulously expensive... most of my clothing is made by hand, and I devote hours and hours of my life to creating vintage clothing in dramatic shades and with wonderful details. I am by myself in this - I do not, as the EGLs, have a group of like-minded cosplay people to flock to when I feel the need to be around other EGS women. So dressiing as an EGS when going out for dinner or to a club really is a very American expression of my individuality, taste and talent.

I think EGL is a wonderful style and COSPLAY in general can be a fantastic means of expression in any country or culture... and in the context of the United States, individual cosplay and borrowing from the style uplifts creativity to a new high!

Thanks - wonderful site. :)

hydeiscute: bauhaus? who are you to say what goth is? goth is different to many people. to some people, it's "embracing the darkness", for others, it's about the appreciate of a time period. and it means more to different people as well. Bauhaus has shit to do with goth. it's INDUSTRIAL goth anyway, and they don't even LOOK what most consider the goth look.

"japanese" be honest. try HALF. if you're 1/4 this, 1/4 that...that only leaves '2/4' japanese...which is...tada! half!

i see where you're coming from. I'm 1/2 Indian and I have some issues with white/black people wearing bindis if/when they don't know what it's about and especially saris. But to each their own. I don't bitch about other people appreciating my culture. why should you?

it's just rude. and you can't speak for every gothic lolita girl just cuz your part japanese. you don't know why they do it. it's not always visual kei. some don't stop for quite some time, if ever.

everyone is different, and that's a good thing.

so "western"...ha...kind of like your comments, right?

i thought i had a closed mind, but then there are people like you out there. consider that other people appreciating another culture or another countrys innovative fashion sense to be a good thing. it is!

Right on, Betty. However, I'm assuming you commented before reading the post Hydeiscute posted after that. I'm sure there were no bad intentions there.

Other than that, I think what you said is true. A lot of people don't consider those things. Either that, or they consider things too much! ^_~

Well, personally, I love the style. My girlfriend is devoted to it. Her only problem is finding online stores with good clothing that ships to the U.S. I've seen some of the English online stores she showed me, and they weren't too impressive. Those clothes sure are pricey too! And sometimes it's coming out of my pocket! But it's worth it. Makes her happy. And I like the doll-like mystery of the style. It's like a horror movie heroin - but a cute one. ^_^

I don't consider the gothic lolita style to be cosplay at all, unless of course you ARE dressing as a specific character or doing some visual kei stuff. However, if you just like the style and wear it, it's just wearing clothes, not wearing a costume. Therefore - not cosplay!

Guess it depends on your reasons. So it's not always trying to be someone else. It's just another form of expression. Kinda like my "The Clash" t-shirt!

Well, 'Nuff said.
-Sammy

A very fun and interesting article. I don't consider EGL as cosplay either though I feel the same way about them. I love dressing up that way cuz it's cute and fun. I'm not goth (so im more the country/sweet lolita type) in fact I'm very conservative in thought (not in dress code) I'm christian and was raised with very christian values and I think that's why the style appeals to me. To me it represents a time where those values were more wide spread and it showed in modesty of the sweet lolita style. It probably isn't that way in Japan though. Basically i like playing dress as much as I did when i was little, I love the art and expression of it, and while I won't say "it's who I am" I will say i doubt i'll change my view. In fact, i would join amateur theature just for teh chance to dress up and play pretend when I'm older.

Wow. This article and the comments after it were certainly an interesting read.

The article - given it's legnth, revealed an interesting personal view on the genre. The comments go much more in depth. And I agree, the article glossed over or didn't mention a lot of parts of Gothic Lolita fashion.

For instance: a lot of Gothic Lolita fashion, especially the "creepy" aspect of it, is tied to the Visual Kei / J-rock music scene in Japan, boys in make-up and fantastical goth costumes performing music. The most infamous of these being Malice Mizer, whose guitarist, Mana, is generally acredited with starting, or at least greatly promoting the Gothic Lolita style of dress (along with owning the flagship EGL/EGA clothing line, Moi Meme Moite). Some of these bands are beautiful and Victorian-influenced (Lareine, Raphael, much of Malice Mizer), while some are quite macabre and grotesque (Dir en Grey, MUCC, Kagerou, Vidoll), with bands all over the scale in between.

Not being Japanese, I of course can't speak for Japanese Gothic Lolitas, but I've been a Canadian Gothic Lolita/Aristocrat for three years, outside of conventions, and making (and selling) my own clothing. And I do it because I find the fashion beautiful and unique - or at least, more unique that everything around me where I live. I've known Aristocrats/Lolitas who do it for the creepy shock factor. I think it's more of a personal choice and inspiration, in which case you can't make the generalization that "The creepy cuteness is meant to disturb, to provoke." Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't. I've known Lolitas in blood red with one blind contact and shock make-up, and I've known Lolitas in blue gingam with lacy parasols. I've known EGA's with fake bruise make-up and blood-filled syringes, and been an EGA in near-authentic corsette and farthingale and perfectly tailored clothing. It's all a matter of personality.

As for the age... hasn't anyone seen the photographs of the EGA/EGL families on the streets of Harajuku in the Gothic & Lolita Bibles? I also know that at 23, I'm younger than at least half of the J-rock cosplayers and EGA/EGL's I know on this side of the ocean.

wow! would you look at the debate this article has spawned!
i happened to think it was a very well written article, but not doubt that it is an extremely western view of japanese sub-culture. it has been fascinating to read what both side have to say about what the significanse of the costume is.
i think a western,bristish lolita goth would be a very different thing from a japanese one. Im gonna have to like this site from my blog!
cheers for the interesting reading.
fred :)

I don't know if anyone had pointed this out previously, but the title of the "Gothic & Lolita Bible" alone speaks worlds about the reason for all these discrepancies in opinion. Everyone calls it the Gothic Lolita Bible, but it's really the Gothic AND Lolita Bible, featuring not only gothic lolita/aristocrat styles, but also just gothic and just lolita/aristocrat styles (among other things).

While this article focused on sub-section of the subculture without announcing its intention to do so and also failed to look into the rich history behind the creator of the G&LB and his counterparts, it was clearly well-intentioned and I am glad the author actually tried to understand the people she was writing about instead of saying "Hey, look at these crazy "Victorian" prostitute kids with black make-up... The Japanese sure are crazy!" like you probably would have seen if this article were in... I won't name names, but think major media.

i like this website!

i like this website!

I want to play Dress-up games

Um.. Just to stick up for the American goths here I wanted to mention that we arent all stupid kids who just want to get attention by scaring normal people. I love to dress up in Elegant Gothic Lolita clothes because I like to feel elegant, and pretty. I dress goth on occasion because I like the simplicity of wearing all black, and even black lipstick isnt worn to scare passer-bys, I just like the way it looks. It can be rather alienating on occasion, but that is not the actual intent. I always make sure to dress in a normal fashion when it is innapropriate, I would not, for instance, go out to dinner with my family with spiked hair and platform shoes... It would be rude. I am also not a scary kid who is full of angst and hates adults. I just dress oddly, That is who I am.. but that doesn't make me a dillusional or violent freak. American kids can play dress up too.

err..just to say that allthough im way too busy trying to find headpiece patterns to read all the comments, im english and i cozplay, maybe you dont need to discuss when we give it up, does it really affect you?
ah well, hope your lives go well
xxx
Mana obsessee (i.e corrie)

err..just to say that allthough im way too busy trying to find headpiece patterns to read all the comments, im english and i cozplay, maybe you dont need to discuss when we give it up, does it really affect you?
ah well, hope your lives go well
xxx
Mana obsessee (i.e corrie)

well, i would just like to say that I, as a Gothic Lolita, DO like to be creepy/cute. There are several different types of Lolita. I just fall into the category that likes to shock, or scare, peeople. maybe it has to do with the music i like (Dir En Grey, Noir Fleurir, Kagerou, etc.)

I think this article was over-analyzing just a bit ;) i dress Lolita because its cute and fun, and i cosplay because i love the character/person im playing as, or their outfit.

well, thats all ^^;

Overanalyzation of other people's hobby... Hmm.

Might as well analyze why people collect stamps! Must be a disturbance in their inner childhood. Yup yup.

I know, I know. I shouldn't be saying things like this and sounding like I'm offended. Which I am not, by all means. I found the article to be articulate-- but sometimes, it just gets so tiring to hear people try to find a deeper meaning in cosplay and the EGL movement, and make it look like a real freak show.

It's nothing but a hobby, a fashion movement. Despite the fact that there are... yes, a certain percentage of cosplayers who takes things much too seriously-- but I believe it's something people shouldn't look into too much.

It's just a hobby that some people enjoy.

Wow...this was a really great discussion on the suject. I hope you all don't mind if I quote some of you in a uni project I'm working on...

i must say that the article was very thought provoking.. although i agree with the lolitas who responded saying that you might have a jumped the gun about a few things.
i dress in the lolita and kinderwhore style. im 23.. not growing out of it anytime soon and i can tell you that theres nothing wrong with my sense of reality. i am a college grad, work two jobs, blah blah blah. my style of dress is a combination of things. i love the attention to detail like some others who posted. every ribbon, matching ruffle panties, stuff like that. many lolis spend hours of sewing and lots of $ to make themselves look exactly as they like. while i wear a uniform 60 hrs a week its a time for me to go all out and make myself feel elegant and special. the goth part is mainly bc of my music likes. ill be the first to admit that i love the stares i get knowing i dont look like everyone else walking down the street..who would want to? i get critcism from friends, family who hate it, but its what i love. others posted that lolis are known for being polite and "child like". which is exactly my personality. im a very empathetic, courteous, and overall a nice person. when i dress loli its just the inside on the outside.

Noooooo~

Dress up? Cosplay? Oh dear, I'm afraid the Japanese lolitai will attack you now if you ever go back to Japan.

n, but there is something to what snippets of the replies I read. Bauhaus are goth in Japan. So is Marylin Manson. I don't think they care if we say that's wrong, which is probably why Haruhiko doesn't like playing in Japan so much...and lolitas over 26 are pushing it. Many of them are just called "painful."

Gothic lolita, gothic and lolita are just styles with a bit of escapism. There is little to nothing sinister about it. Just like anything there are a wide variety of people that do it for a variety of reasons. To attempt to pigeon hole any one is not gong to end well. It is clothing, it is an expression that became a style and you don't need to go much beyond that.

As for age, there is no real cap. While obviously a majority are young there is a decent aging population of participants that spend enough time to stay looking good. I'm 22 and see no reason to stop anytime soon. There is just as much beauty in age as in youth, your not ugly or dead when you hit 30.

First off I want to establish some things. Im not an EGL or an EGA. Im certainly not Japanese. Im American. Im also really tired after having read most of this page so my spelling and wording is going to suck. CONGRATS if youre actually reading this. Ive been fascinated by this fashion and culture on the streets of Harajuku for quite a long time. I find it interesting to hear all the responses of people from around the globe. I am fluent in two languages and know basics in two more, and thus can read websites from other countries. I have found possibly the best response of the "western" world though probably comes from France. My mom thinks the Japanese teens are nuts no matter what I say, she does not like the fashion. I am in someways "gothic" depending of course on the definition, I see beauty in places where most others dont. I wear mainly "weird" colors because it makes me happy. Some of my friends incessently call themselves "punk". People tend to label themselves or dress a certain way to find people of a like mind and interest. In america, most EGL/EGA are either anime otaku or really into Japanese culture. Its a way one can identify strangers to talk to that you will most likely get a long with. I met a friend once because she was wearing the ubiquitous band logo tshirt, and she and I started talking about the band.

What Im trying to say is that most Japanese EGL and EGA or EL are the nice sweet people that they are embodying by wearing the clothes that they like. Sorry if this was worded badly, Im really tired. Goodnight.

Where can you order this Gothic Lolita dresses because a really want those dresses badly??????????? Hope you can help me=)

Rachelle

I'm and cute colorful gothic you can say a new age..I mean i still sometime where the black..But i don't think it the clothes that make the goth...Ok maybe it is and the attitude...But not any one can be a gothic..And when i was in japan i felt in a better placeat the club then i did in the usa....I promise you we don't bite

While many sites are out there for GL anf EGL clothing most are in Japanese, most sizes are very small(I am the only person I know that could even fit most GL clothing),few ship to the US and all are very expensive. Your best bet is either to learn to sew or to find somone in the area that tailors or makes clothing because the price would actually be close to the same if not cheaper than importing it. You can find some US made stuff but honestly, most of it lacks the flair and charm along with much of it being poorly made.

http://www.metamorphose.gr.jp/

One of the few sites that will ship to the US.

Speaking of which, how much of a male contigency of gothloli is there in Japan? By this I mean dresses and such, full Mana-esque crossdressing, not EGA. Please email me if you have any idea about this! I'm very curious, as I'm interested in dressing gothloli, but have no idea if it's done ever by men in Japan (and of course, about the only place I could wear it aside from my house would be the Castro district of San Fransisco).

Great article and pictures! I am hoping for a line of Bratz dolls in this style- since they have already done a FRUiTS style I am hoping the future holds a line of EGL Bratz too
:)
sfb

Bratz World
www.bratzworld.tv
www.bratz.tv

To start off the article was well written, I'll give you that. It seemed like it was just tossing Lolita with the cosplay thing though... which is pretty much far from the truth.

I've read somewhere that Japanese Lolita don't like being connected in anyway to cosplay and I don't blame them. Heck, its been said gothic-lolita should wear glasses because it links them to cosplay. Yeah, I do cosplay but when I dress up I hate people saying 'oh she just dresses that way 'cause shes cosplaying'. For me and many others its just a way to dress cute - like wearing a mini skirt or carring your favorite purse around. I don't dress up to be creepy or to freak people out. If people think that about me then I'm crushed!

Anyway... by reading this it seems like the writer hasn't done that much reading on they fashion as you should have or hasn't really talked to one. I'm not trying to offend you or anyone else... thats just what I got out of it and I have a right to have my own opinion, ne?

While there were parts of this article that I found myself nodding my head in agreement with, there were also a few things that were incorrect interpretations of the Gothic Lolita world. I feel that my friend Nadia did a wonderful job going through those and pointing out the way the Japanese Goth Lolitas feel. However, there was one serious point that I feel has been overlooked.
The entire article started as a paper for `cosplayer.` If you talk to a Japanese Goth Lolita and tell her that she is a cosplayer, she will be certain to correct you. The cosplay community, while a respected community in and of itself, is not the same as the goth, goth lolita, or lolita community. It only appears as such from a Western standpoint, where wearing anything other than `normal clothes` instantly becomes cosplay.
So what is the difference between a cosplayer and a Goth Lolita? A cosplayer can dress up as a Goth Lolita, but is merely cosplay because they are not one. The Cosplayer will dress up that way because she wants to `feel` like a Goth Lolita for a while and wearing the clothes allows her to feel that way. A Cosplayer is not restricted to merely one form of fashion, either. She/he is able to dress up as whatever they want, be it an anime character, a Goth, or even a normal person.
Because this is very difficult for me to explain, allow me to give a few examples that I have encountered with my Goth Loli friend here in Japan. As a Goth Loli, my friend wears here name brand Goth Loli dresses just about everyday. It was to the point that even now, I have difficulty imagining her in anything other than that style. However, one day we were meeting at Kichijouji for dinner and she was wearing a normal white shirt and jeans. When I meantioned my surprise at seeing　ｈｅｒ　ｄｒｅｓｓ　in　normal　clothes，she　exclaimed　‘I　am　cosplaying　as　a　normal　person．‘　Ｔｈｉｓ　comment　struck　me　as　very　interesting．　Ｔｏ　cosplay　is　to　dress　up　as　something　you　aren`ｔ，in　a　sense．Ｏｆ　course，this　term　will　change　from　person　to　person．But I　feel　that　it　would　be　incorrect　to　catagorize　Cosplayers　with　Goth　Loli　and　the　Other　branches　of　Harajuku　fashion．

EGL fashion has great components: lace, head wear,and pretty fabrics. However, too much frills and poufy skirts induced by pannier-use can be an overdose. Refinement is vital. I find the article good content-wise. It doesn't matter what this fashion symbolizes. Just good taste @_@

P.S. What exactly is EGA?

EGL fashion has great components: lace, head wear,and pretty fabrics. However, too much frills and poufy skirts induced by pannier-use can be an overdose. Refinement is vital. I find the article good content-wise. It doesn't matter what this fashion symbolizes. Just good taste @_@

P.S. What exactly is EGA?

This article was really interesting because I had always been interested in the Western view on lolitas.

I'm a Japanese living in an English speaking country who is intending to become a Gothic Lolita next year when I return to Japan.
It was offensing for me as a future lolita to just categorise Gothic Lolitas and cosplays together.
As other people have stated, lolitas dress because they like the fashion. If I was to be a called a cosplayer when wearing lolita fashion I will be infuriated because it's like being told that you are trying to be someone else. Not true.
I'll be wearing lolita fashion to express myself and because I like the design and atmosphere of the lolita fashion more than the 'normal' clothes.

Really...
Sure, there are people who like to dress up.
There are people who like the fashion itself.

Oh, whoever said that just because (some, I don't know or all, who am I to say) japanese (gothic) lolitas say that they'll do it till 22 years or until they grow up, they are healthy, because unlike the other goths, note, not gothic lolitas, goths, they say they doing a dress up, why are they healthy when they say that.
I can say that most goths are perfectly healthy too, so what that they like to be dark. Besides it's not all for creepy and scaring the society. Some just like dressing and expressing themselves.
Isn't it stereotyping people, if you say that goths who say that this is who they are, are unhealthy. It isn't DRESSUP for THEM!

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