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10/11/2002

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jane

it's true that as much i love it, the game Silent Scope seems pretty darn realistic... although without the recoil factor that probably comes with a real weapon. but it's not the realism that makes the game so fun - it's the trick of looking at the screen to spot your target then aiming through the scope. whether you're shooting bullets at terrorists or (just for example) bubbles at Kirbys it's the gameplay that's fun, not the graphics or the set-up.

i think games don't necessarily have to be violent and "realistic" to be fun.

Liz

More talk about video games again today in the news. The sniper took out a women in the Home Depot parking lot, right in front of her husband. People really start looking for SOMETHING to blame at a time like this.

Bowler

I for one am tired of the gaming/violence connection. I was tired of the rock/violence connection in the 90's. I was tired of the Dungeons and Dragons/violence connection in the 80's. However, I can say with certainty that videogames cannot ever train you to shoot a firearm properly.

First off, he's not even firing at long range. He's at maximum point blank range for the rifle he's using (an AR-15). He's not a sniper. He's someone who just barely knows enough to fire a rifle accurately at 150 yards with a 30x scope. This sounds fairly difficult but you'd be surprised just how easy it is. It's about as difficult as shooting a human target in the head with a pistol at ten feet. No joke. An ounce of practice and anyone could do it easily.

He doesn't know how to control his breathing properly. He knows that he can't accurately fire the rifle anywhere beyond what's considered "point blank" for a scoped rifle (in this case, 150 yards). He's a complete rank amateur marksman at best, and if videogames taught him anything, it's how *not* to fire a weapon properly (note: in recent news he's been profiled as two people (one drives; one shoots). They may be trading turns shooting, and one may be a better marksman than the other, since the hit locations have been wildly different...but I digress).

Two examples of how videogames don't teach you to be a better shot: Silent Scope and Counter-Strike.

Silent Scope: the "weapon" is mounted at the wrong hinge-point. That is to say, the weapon "turns" at the base of the grip. To aim to the right, you have to scoot your body to the left. A real rifle "turns" when you aim it from the base of your armpit. In fact, a true marksman doesn't turn the gun; he turns his entire torso at the waist. There's no need to shuffle your feet or lean over with a real gun to aim it. Silent Scope doesn't factor in breathing (at ranges beyond point-blank, your breathing effects the aim of the gun), wind, bullet drop due to gravity (the gun in the game is pinpoint accurate at all ranges), reloading a bolt-action gun quickly without jamming it (what a *real* sniper would use since bolt-action weapons are more repeatably reliable than an automatic), putting your face on the same part of the rifle each time you look through the scope (to increase optical accuracy), etc etc etc. It's a point and shoot arcade game at best. Dont' get me wrong; I love the game, but it's no sniper-simulator :)

Counter-Strike is even worse since there isn't even a "real" gun for you to hold and aim like in Silent Scope. Just right click on the mouse twice and you're zoomed in. Riiiiiiight. Couple that with all of the above problems with Silent Scope, and you really have an arcade game of holding a crosshair over a moving target; again, not a Sniper-simulator. You don't even have to lead your targets in Counter-Strike. All damage is considered instantaneous (to help solve the client/server lag issue). The bullets don't even fly through the air (unlike Silent Scope).

At any rate, sorry if this sounded lecture-ish. Wasn't my intent if it did.

I wanted to add that I love this site (and Umami Tsunami). I found it through Jane's site through my buddy Tim Bland's site.

jane

thanks, Bowler! for the compliment as well as the great detail on "realism" in game-guns. just because it looks real in screenshots doesn't mean it is - which is why i often put "realism" in quotes, since that's not a quality that can truly be found in a game. a game, by definition, is un-real - it only seems real when it mimicks certain cues (mostly visual, now, but in the future maybe physical as well) that we've grown acculturated to accept as defining physical environment.

in any case, i appreciate the information; it's more clear than ever that games would do a very poor job of actually teaching someone how to aim/fire these weapons.

but what about the Army's using it as a recruitment tool? they are banking on the fact that it may be possible to impart, not technical knowledge, but perhaps tactical skills and, more importantly, instill a desire to play the game in real life. maybe.

in any case, did you see the thread on Slashdot about the Washington DC-area sniper's supposedly having played Counter-Strike or some such game?

my favorite comment:

by Ridge on Saturday October 19, @04:38PM (#4486094)
(User #37884 Info)
Hmm, if that's the case, DC area residents should make it a regular practice of shouting "AWP WHORE" every few minutes. If this guy is truly a CS player, he'll surely jump up from his cowardly camping spot, run towards them with an MP5 shouting back "I'll 0wn j00 bi0tch." Obviously, in his 12-year old furor, he'll have forgotten to load his MP5. When arriving at his target area, he'll squeeze the trigger and nothing will happen. He'll shout "Fux0r!@&!" before getting riddled with bullets by 72 year old Mrs. Eileen Mulberry, who goes by the CS handle, "Granny0wnZurBitchAzz."
http://slashdot.org/articles/02/10/19/1532258.shtml?tid=127

Bowler

Good point about the Army's game. I had totally forgotten about that. I think that they're using it as pure propoganda. I'll concede the point that games can make the real thing seem attractive (which is why the military's using a game as a $4 million advertisement), but ultimately, it's up to the individual to know what's right and what's wrong.

Jim

games that involve any type of "real" murder are rated for 17+

stop the crying and get your facts right before you attack the video game industry !

Nalin

...though this debate should be wrapped up right now I'd just like to say that when I checked out Jane's link to her playing Silent scope I realized that she plays in the exact same arcade I do....small world no?

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ali kharraz

subject:i apply for a job
Dear honorar:
I would be very happy to write you if you decide to employ me. Please send
me
your name and address.
Firstly, I want to thank you for your trust and confidence in myself. Now I
want to present to you my full name, Ali Kharraz. I weigh 145 lbs. and I am
5
ft. 5 in. tall, with a lot of different experiences and confidence that I
will
please you in my work. I want to realize my dream to work and live in your
city. I want to develop my thoughts and ideas to assist me in my future
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time
reading, writing, and do some social work with (A.M.E.J/
ASSOCIATION MAROCAIN D'EDUCATION DES JEUNES) organizing some activities for
clients who suffer from psychological illnesses. I also cut hair for free
for
the people in Center De Protection De L'enfance.
I live a modest life. I do not smoke, or drink. I have a good basic
education. My Mother died in 1997 in an accident. My Father is unemployed
at
this time and I have five brothers and sisters that wish to help support. I
am
trustworthy, reliable, and eager to please you. I do not have a
requirement
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I will be happy to share any part of my life with you to answer questions
that
you may have about my ability to assist you in any way you wish.

Thank you very much for considering my resume.
Best greetings from Agadir
Your Sincerely, Ali


resume:
thank you for sending me your question was well understood.
now i want to send you my resume:
familly name:kharraz proinoun:ali sex:male
date&place of birth:19/07/1975 in casablanca.
e-mail:ali_lama12@hotmail.com

tel:00 (212) 67 90 37 58.
adress:bloc4n105c.p.h
ichach-agadir
morocco
diploma:informatique.

nationality:moroccan. religion:islam.

passport n:n924 046 identification card n:j302 945.

level school:bac.

experiences:

* 2000:work in the restaurant. (cashier) .
-register all the number of things drinking or eating.
-giving the price by waiter to our clients.
-sometimes when the time is free,i clean the restaurant.

* 2001work in the massage salon. (massage therapist) .
-we convince our clients about the important of massage .
-activating a weak points (606 in the body).
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stress.
-making the yin-yang (to make the balance of the body).
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* 2002 work as a bell boy/service with accomodation.
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-providing them for some information.
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(religion,cities,mythologie,civilisation...) by driving a golf-car.

Other:
* 2000:write my first writing (the future intellect in the civilization).
* 2002:write my 2nd writing about conversation between different
civilization.
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languages:
first:conversational arabic.
second:french.
third:english.
fourth:deutsch
fiffth:spanish
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00 (212) 67 90 37 58.
best greetings from agadir-morocco.
nb:
i'm open to different culture especially spiritualism.
in sophisme : ibnou arabi , ibnou maskawaih .
immoralism: frederick nietzsch.
dialectique of materialism: karl-marx.
instrumentalism: dewey that people american likes verry well....
i m also interesting to artificial intelligence:
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in interactivity:
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i want to know more about the mental topography , and the semiologie the
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thank you verry much
your sincerley ali
ps:
i don't have any problem conerning language(spelling, verbs,grammar,idioms,vocabulary,conversation,language humour...)

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