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01/27/2004

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eli

What strikes me as entirely ludicrous, not to mention embarrassing for a group of individuals -- Mac users -- who roundly consider themselves a discerning, enlightened bunch, is the complete lack of critical thinking when assessing Xbox and the assignment of condign appreciation for the exceptional qualities it does possess.

That may be how Mac users see themselves, but the rest of the world sees them a little differently. Mac heads have always had a tendency to fall into a reality distortion field... I used to be a Mac user (learned C programming on a Mac Plus way back when) but now primarily use Linux and it's great fun to see my family (Mac-users, all) start frothing at the mouth any time I praise Microsoft. Mac users may think they are rational but they are nothing of the sort. And you know what? Microsoft Windows is not all that bad.

san

If there were no Mac OS X -- or no Mac before that -- I would use Windows, or Linux or Solaris or whatever. But there is a Mac OS X and it is, in my opinion, much better than Windows. But, no, Windows is not all that bad. There's not a thing I do with my Mac that I could not in some way do with Windows; I just do it somewhat differently on the Mac.

Yes, unfortunately in any issue of fealty, "discerning and enlightened" is often merely synonymous with "zealot".

dhex

ya gotta understand something (as i post from a giant macintosh) - evangelists of any stripe come off as looney to the uninitiated. mac evangelists are much like scientologist evangelists, imo; frothy and and struggling to convince themselves the few thousand they just laid out was worth it.

eli

I thought Apple took a serious step backwards from usability when they released OSX. Previously their main selling point had been the OS's intuitiveness. Now they have dumped intuitiveness and are advertising the fact that their boxes are "faster" than Wintel boxes. (Remember all the zealotry about "Mhz doesn't mean anything"?) Microsoft and Apple have almost switched places, advertising and focus-wise.

This discussion makes me want to dig the Mac Plus out of the closet and play a game of Dark Castle...

drew

I am a former Mac sysadmin, but now use PCs because everyone else does, and I have no mind of my own. I doseem to have somewhat of an IBM Thinkpad fetish as well - I'm on #5. I kinda view the Mac/PC debate in a similar vein to the San Francisco/LA debate - everyone in San Francisco hates LA, and everyone in LA thinks San Francisco is a fine place to visit, and doesn't really care what they think.

waka

What strikes me as entirely ludicrous, not to mention embarrassing for a group of individuals -- Mac users -- who roundly consider themselves a discerning, enlightened bunch, is the complete lack of critical thinking when assessing Xbox and the assignment of condign appreciation for the exceptional qualities it does possess.

Please be careful not to lump all Mac users together. What you are witnessing is Internet Zealotry Syndrome, available for all products on message boards across the web. Macs vs. PCs, Xbox vs. PS2 vs. GameCube, Ratchet and Clank vs. Jak and Daxter, etc, etc.

I think the trick here is that people have to make a decision that involves their money and their time, and no matter what they do not want to feel like they made anything but the absolute best decision. You'll notice that the majority of these people only actually own one console, and they are more interested in defending their own decision than they are actually commenting on the quality of the product that they have purchased.

Personally, I use both Macs and PCs regularly (PC at work, Mac at home). I code on Macs, PCs, and most of the consoles. I use products by Microsoft and products by Apple. Whatever. I don't care who made the damn thing, I care about what I can get done with it. I don't own an Xbox because none of the exclusive titles are appealing enough for me to go out and buy it. I'll never buy a PC for my home use because I am approximately 17 times more efficient under MacOS (though I agree OS X has some serious flaws). I don't hate Microsoft, but I do find their software to be generally more aggravating than that of over vendors. If Microsoft Word had the Apple logo on it, I'd still be pissed off at the horrible UI.

There are zealots everywhere, and they are all crazy. Ignore them and maybe they will go away.

waka

ragmana

There are zealots everywhere, and they are all crazy. Ignore them and maybe they will go away.

Sigh...That's what we said about the German Socialists before the second world war. If only it were true.

Swing Heil!

Snowmit

The thing that blows me away about the Xbox is that it is a 1.0 product and it's really good. That's very rare in the world of modern hardware and software.

One other thing that the Xbox did well that I hope that other console makers think about in the future is that EVERYTHING YOU NEED to start playing is RIGHT IN THE BOX. I'm sick of shelling out extra money for memory cards. Every game out there (with the exception of Pac Man vs.) requires a memory card to play but Sony and Nintendo continue to insist on selling them seperately. This results in, at best, consumers who are kind of annoyed that they have to pay even more money on top of the advertised price and (at worst) crying kids on Christmas who can't play their new Final Fantasy game out of the box.

san

"One other thing that the Xbox did well that I hope that other console makers think about in the future is that EVERYTHING YOU NEED to start playing is RIGHT IN THE BOX."

Amen, brother.

And you're right, for a first generation product it is quite sufficient. Sony pulled of the same coup with it's original PlayStation: from not our market to viable player with a great platform. Of course, they went on to *all* our market!

Skwirl

Sigh...That's what we said about the German Socialists before the second world war. If only it were true.

I seem to remember a saying about how the longer an internet argument gows on, the chance of someone being called a Nazi approaches 1

Calypso

I wonder how long before Apple announces a gaming console.

waka


I wonder how long before Apple announces a gaming console.

circa 1996...

http://www.macgeek.org/museum/pippin/

waka

san

waka: I called Steve Jobs last night -- ya know we're pals; I have his mobile number -- and asked him about this "Pippin" thing you mention. He said, "We never made one of those." Then I asked him about this PDA-type device that I've heard rumors Apple at one time sold under the name "Newton". "We never made one of those, either." he said.

So, this "Pippin" must merely be one of those wild Internet rumors that gets rolling and can't be stopped. You know how *that* goes.

[If Apple ever makes another gaming console, I'll eat my iPod -- with catsup.]

eli

My uncle still uses his Newton... He swears up and down that it's the best PDA ever made, and refuses to upgrade. He also still uses his Apple Quicktake 100. The man is incurable.

outsider

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